After posting yesterday about The first Gay Jordan blog, I got several messages where some felt for the guy, some didn’t, and some even attack homosexuals as whole.
One comment by Tala stopped me, she said:
imagine a head of an arab political party who is gay! it is possible but not credible, i wont have faith in his leadership, its like pedophile pope,, a gay doesnt qualify by the laws of arab culture!! ma 3am tinbale3! the first thing that occurs to me is “biddak shad baraghee ya 7ilu”
It triggered me to write more about this subject in an attempt to raise more awarnace towards this issue that is starting to reveal itself more than anytime in our Arabic history. There are many aspects regarding the whole homosexual thing that I would like to address in several posts.
Gays and Femininity
There is a strong stereotype among people where they percieve feminine men as gays while in fact there are many gay men who are as musculine as any other straight man, and where there are man feminine men who are straight.
Femininity is a relative matter, and in the contrary of what a lot of people believe, it has nothing to do with someone’s sexual orientation. It does have a strong relationship with the sexual identity of the person which is different than sexual orientation.
We tend to put everything different in the same basket. We don’t differenciate between a man having sexual attraction to another man, and a man who feels like a woman from the inside, or a man who has neither this nor that and still likes to wear the other gender clothes (cross dressers).
Sexual orientation, sexual identity, and sex are three different conceptsand are not a set of 2 or 3 distinct options. For example it isn’t either Gay, Bi, or Straight in terms of orientation, or Male, Female, in between in terms of sexual identity, or Man, Woman or both in terms of sex.
All of those factors comes in a spectrum. Some studies claims that 90% of the population are in fact Bi-sexuals. The strength of attraction to certain gender varies from a person to another. It depends on how strong are those urges in order to someone to act on them. We, people, are different. We usually scale on ourselves in order to judge the other. We try to acknowledge our differences, but we find a hard time doing so.
I am not sure what is exactly that we hate to see. A man who has an attraction to other men, or a man who looks and acts as a femininie man? Is a gay masculine man accepted in our society? Is a straight femininie man accepted?
Is it a matter of sexual orientation or a matter of sexual roles?
Or is it a matter of us not accepting anything that look different than what percieve to be the norm?
Fadi Zaghmout فادي زغموت 
That is fadi what most ppl don’t know! I learned about it when my friend told me he is gay 🙂 but even before that I didn’t hate them , why would I? They are not dangerous, they would not rape you, well, they may in the same percentage a straight person would !I think that the biggest problem is that it contradicts with religion, our society doesn’t accept anything that conflicts with religion although religions respect and never encourages to hate non religious ppl ..
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The problem is that most people are selective when choosing what to stick to and what not to stick to in terms of religion. We all are sinners, so why judge each other?
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Gay or straight , it doesn’t matter , we are all humans , we are all god’s creatures , we should be treated with respect , some of the comments I read about your previous post shocked me , some one I don’t remember who compared gays to pedophiles , and someone else thought they weren’t human !!!!!!! @ Natasha : you have to know that most homosexuals are born this way , so I don’t think that god would create gays and then punish them for that !!
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i once saw on tv that something happens to the fetus during the first months of pregnancy “which scientists until now didnt discover what exactly” that makes people become homosexuals…but i dont believe that
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anonymous, welcoem to the Arab world :P. A lot of people dont really differenciate between a pedophile and a homosexual.Manal yusuf, I remember an episode in Oprah where she brought twins where one turned to be a transexual man while the other one is normal man. They suspect that there might be some hormones that affected one of the twins at a side of the womb. Those were identical twins which means that their genetics were identical.
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i do believe that what i said is true, but you need to understand my point.i am not against them, im not asking to ban them, i am just asking why should i give him rights and clap for him because he is gay, ” am an alien, am a legal alien, i am an English man in New York” ” english in New york or Gay in Amman, kullo wa7ad” i dont have to go out of my way to protect him. i didnt deprive him from any rights in the first place. he is the one who was hiding, he wants to come to surface, let it be. but dont tell me people are being cruel to him, in our society, he is odd. its a fact, the reaction he sees from others is natural and its his problem to cope with it.if i noticed one at university or in the street, i dont even bother, let everyone be, even i find interest talking to them just to know more. its neutral, but respects,, hell no way! Fadi, at the lines you quoted, i was making an image, being a pope and a pedophile doesn’t match because simply his job is to preach morality, he harms children which is not walking the talk, but for a fact, it did exist, now if you think of Arab culture, dont go too far, say fifties.. how is it precieved? for me being Arab and Gay doesn’t match. he has to drop one. anyways, how many of us speak of being an arab, rather than wanting to follow the beat,, culture is dying, i know this. i went to extreme with pedophiles + pope to get a point across. as simple as this.yes. if there was a man who ACTS feminine and IS to lead an ARAB Country. HE REALLY HAS TO DO A GREAT JOB IN HAVING ME TO HAVE FAITH IN HIS LEADERSHIP AND TO BE EXCEPTIONAL BECAUSE AT THE BACK OF MY HEAD I DONT WANT TO BE LEAD BY A FEMININE GUY..concerning this post, and i am talking about myself, i can deal with a guy who is gay because i can find an explaination for his behaviour, but i cant deal with a guy who is straight and feminine, its annoying. i guess i made myself clear. sorry for getting anyone offended.
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Hey Tala, you didn’t get my point that I wrote all this long post to explain. Femininty has nothing to do with being sexual orientation. Now I am not sure that I got you clear as well. You have a problem with a feminine man, or gay man? How come you won’t trust a feminine man as a leader? Would his femininity eat from his other qualifications? if yes, do you support women as leaders?Why do you think gays have been in the closet for so long? No just in our Arabic world, but also in the whole world. Because there has been a real danger on their lives. It isn’t your fault, and it is not the fault of the current generation gays who are gaining more courage to come out in a world that is more civilized and is ready to accept them.
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This is what I don’t get. I remember reading this book called “Princess” by Jean Sasson some time back. She’s American but voices out the unfair treatment of women in the Middle East and their subordinance to women. But that’s not the point. The point is that, the author also mentioned that Arabic women aren’t allowed to openly “hang out” or casually acquaint (even for friendship) with men. And thus, women are only to “hang out” with OTHER women, and as SUCH, it is only NORMAL that, given the conditions, certain women become lesbians. But at the same time, it is considered some sort of blasphemy in Islam.My question is, what are these poor women to do? They cannot acquaint with men, they immediately become “sluts”, but they cannot acquaint too much with women either, cause men are afraid they’ll turn into lesbians.Again I ask: What are Arabic women to do?(At the same time, it is important to keep in mind that I do not mean ALL Arabic women aren’t allowed to acquaint with men, but just generally. Because I know that things are slowing changing in the Middle East (hurray!) and as such, women are gaining slightly more freedom.)
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*** subordinance to MEN
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Observer: I could not agree more with your statement “The problem is that most people are selective when choosing what to stick to and what not to stick to in terms of religion. We all are sinners, so why judge each other? ” This is sooo true. You have people who bash gays while they drink and steal and blah blah blahWe all sin (according to religion anyway)
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Tala: You fail to see why we should try and “protect his rights” or “respect them” because the same Arab rules that do not let him do what he wants to do without being harassed or called names does not allow you as an Arab Jordanian woman to give your child your citizenship or a Saudi woman from driving.It’s all connected you see.We have to look beyond being Arab here. So when you said you can’t be an Arab and a homosexual you could not have been any more prejudiced I think.It means a lot from a humans rights perspective to look beyond religion or culture and let them be. He is human and he deserves to be respected regardless of his sexual orientation (unless he is a bad person of course). Depriving him of his rights means depriving other people that are different from their rights too and using culture and religion as an excuse.Let me give you an example, there was a bill here in Canada to allow gay marriage, this bill was passed in Parliament. Then comes another new government that wanted to disallow it again on the basis of religion that a marriage has to be between a man and a woman, the bill passed again to allow gay marriage.I was for it 100% because if we allow the government to disallow this it means that some day they might disallow other things that mean a lot to me, like for example they might decide to disallow people from taking religious time off or they might disallow women from breast feeding in public, you know what I mean? (I just threw these out as examples).Observer, you said it best: would you be against an Arab woman leader?
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Saad, women acquainting with other women don’t turn them into lesbians unless they are born lesbians 🙂I guess that this is another misconception. I mean people usually say that in Saudi Arabia there are a lot of homosexuals because men can’t see women as Women in public are covered with black. But I disagree with that. Maybe homosexual men have more chances to interact with each other when you have only men to see all around you, but it doesn’t turn a straight man into a homosexual man just because there is no women around! 7aki Fadi, You are right, we all sinners 🙂
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7aki Fadi, wow, I couldn’t put it better. Your response to Tala is just… perfect 🙂
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this whole diaqlogue is silly… I know why some people like to think that it is ok to be gay, so that they look more hip, western and faffy… being gay, lesbian is 7aram, disrespectful and absolutely gross. FULL STOP
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I think Tala makes a good point! I don’t agree with her 100% but there is something to what she says in the first paragraph.I am against positive discrimination! Discrimination under the law needs to be abandoned. If people hate gays, thats their choice. We cannot impose on others what to think or believe. If someone doesn’t like gays, its his free choice.You might hate a straight guy, so why are u not allowed to hate a gay guy?! Where is the equality?! Why the double standard?!On the other hand, if the gays’ right are being violated, they have full right to get those rights back. Homos deserve EQUAL rights as other humans, but NOT MORE!
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am still baffled by this topic, but in an overview it reaffirm my idea that Arabs are racists by nurture.Really look around, we divide ourselves under so many categories (we are really blunt & bloody about what we don’t like) that i think if the only bias on the list is the bias towards Homos our life would be so much simpler.The funny thing is about all that is the main contingent to the bias is fear, at the root of that is the idea that the traits we don’t like are infectious (for example we call blacks slaves, Palestinians Belgians just to name a few) On another note regarding that comment about lesbian behavior and same male sex in Saudi Arabia (at least IMHO) having explored the same sex doesn’t mean u feel anything towards that , i think most of it is just venting out some hormones nothing more. predatoristic in case of men, exploratory in case of women.I do Agree a 110% with 7aki fadi, since ur a women u should atleast be able to put ur self in his shoes better than most of us guys here.cause reality is ur sentiments are exactly the sentiments of majority of the arab world male populationSo ya god luck arguing for ur rights from now on.especially since most of them were not god given rights either
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Come out of the closet o khallissna.We all know about your faggot tendencies.Its okay, you can ask for asylum in Sweeden and live happily ever after.
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dear Talaplz don’t mix between Gays and FemininityI’m a masculine gay!!!dear why u ask me 2 choose between being Arab or being gay??I want 2 be an Arab Jordanian gayhoney I’m not asking u 2 protect me (I can protect myself)the only thing that I want from u is respecting me as a human & accepting me as a member in this Arabic communityIt’s true I’m the one who is hidingbut did u think why I’m hiding?!!like what Fadi’s said ” Because there has been a real danger on my life” not only from the big community; there is a risk from my family, my neighbors & religion leadersIf I was a gay who lives in Saudi Arabia they will kill me, in Egypt they will prison meonly in Lebanon I can be out & tell ppl about my real sexual orientationthis is what George Qazy جورج قزيhad done in helem حلمorganization in Lebanon
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dear OulaI’m a gay not b/c gays look more hip, western and faffy!!!believe me this is not trueThese things have nothing 2 do with gays & lesbianI’m gay b/c this is my natureGod creates me like thishoney u can’t imagine how much I suffer b/c I’m gaySo I’m not playing a game & I’m not pretending some silly thing the only thing I do in my blog is talking about my true internal feeling, plz try 2 understand meJust try 2 think that I could be ur cousin, sonor brother do I deserve disrespectful ??!!
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dear No_Angelthank u because u wish good luck in arguing gay rights🙂I’d like what u said about how we divide ourselves under so many categories
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dear Devil’s MindAs a gay I will be more than satisfied if Homos have EQUAL rights as other humans, NOT MORE!!!!I will stand up for u ( barroblak akber salam ta8zeem wa ta7eya 3askareya ) b\c u r against positive & negative discrimination
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dear Anonymouswhy 2 ask for asylum in Sweden and live happily ever after?why not 2 live happily in my country Jordan which I love the most ?? ( al wa6an lel jami3)
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Oula, I expected a better response from you as of being an intellectual good writer.Why don’t you go invesitgate from a scientific point of view what being homosexual means??!! I don’t think that any sane human being would endangder his life just because to be ‘cool’! If it is really haram, then you should go back and think why would Allah create people that he already condemned to hell? no_angel, welcome to my blog. You are right, women and gay rights is highly related. People would see the light eventually.Devil’s mind, I guess that no one asked anyone to give from his right. Yes, you have the right to hate, but gays have the right to ask for equality and safety in where they live.Mohammad, you are doing a good job, keep it going…
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hmm mohammed i was wishing goodluck for tala in arguin women’s rights but oh well thnxas for u observer, Na not the first time i been here 😀 i just never comment i think the first time i been here was when u wrote that short story which read as prophetic in way (tho i might be wrong :P)and ya also since i like devil’s blog and ur always there even tho he gets on my nerves i still like arguin with him (sometimes i blow up tho) so ya i kinda know about u 3 (tala, observer, and devil)
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:), I like devil’s blog as well, and yes he can be annoying sometimes! lol 🙂So now it is 4 (no_angel, Tala, Devil’s Mind, Observer) 🙂
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someone said that ppl shouldn’t mix homosexuals wiz pedophile, So why can’t we say -as u all keep saying here – that “God created pedophile in this way also” that it’s in their nature to have sexual desire for children just as the homosexuals have desire to their same sex?? what z difference?!!!it’s all wrong , both have a distorted nature, both needs a cure.
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Anonymous, The difference is that homosexuals are harmless, while pedophile do harm. Pedophility is a sexual disorder, homosexuality is not, science say so.
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<>How come you won’t trust a feminine man as a leader? Would his femininity eat from his other qualifications? if yes, do you support women as leaders?<>A feminine (sisy) guy doesn’t qualify to lead. this is my opinionA leader is like a pilot, he has certain characteristics that make him/her qualify and strength of character is integral. the same applies to women, i won’t get neither an emotional man or woman to be a portal of a nation (using emotional loosely). regardless of a leader’s orientation, it forcebly doesn’t come to the surface for a cause, not fear, no angel, Fadi and Mohammad, because its part of the job. he/she speaks for all. he has to be neutral and unbiased and in the case of a sisy he doesn’t look, negociate and convince in a manner that i dont see who he is first which is not leadership, if he can lead without conflicting with being sisy, then there won’t be a problem, hit the road and take your chance .. do you understand what i am saying?when i look at a person, i look for qualifications first then i see if other stuff confict with what is required from you, this is not racism… people, lawyers like you, holds a string and amplify things with no reason. you hold the banners of human rights and democracy when u know in reality what happens. i am not harming you, but i am not obliged to like you. just be and leave me alone. Mohammad, i won’t protect you because you are gay, Jordanian or Arab, i would when i see it necessary, when you are violated! in my opinion you are not, i see it secondary for me to look for your right to kiss in public, there are priorities in life.. i can’t respect you because you are gay, i can’t respect you for what you are, you earn my respect for who you are. whats so special with saying that you are gay? do i have to conform with the rest with saying that you are brave for speaking out loud that you are gay in an arab community? no. go to amsterdam and say you are gay and they will say whats new?! don’t make a fuss out of it, its not a big deal. no one will put you in jail or harm you. just dont make it being a gay here a reason for you a get somewhere because you are being a pioneer with something different. people here should learn to see beyond that scope and really learn how to evaluate a person. one more question, what rights do you want, can please elaborate Mohammad ?
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okay Tala, I got your point now 🙂You are against emotional person. I have heard that some people take this excuse to discredit women from holding leadership positions. I guess it depends on the person and how you percieve it. As for Mohammad right, do you think that his rights has been violated when Qwiader refused to ad his blog to Qwaider planet?If not, do you feel the Devil’s Mind rights has been violated when they kicked him out JordanBlogs?or Nassim for his political opinion?
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<>“If not, do you feel the Devil’s Mind rights has been violated when they kicked him out JordanBlogs?”<> – I don’t think I had a “right” to be enlisted on JordanBlogs. JordanBlogs is a personal work of Khaled, and its his right to exclude blogs.The case of Khaled’s exclusions was not a case of rights… It was more a case of respect and responsibility to readers. In my opinion, Khaled didn’t violate anyone’s rights, but he showed lack of responsibility towards his readers, and lack of professionalism in his work. Professional work implies that the person doing the work puts aside his personal convictions and follows a well-defined policy.Professional work needs commitment to avoid personal convictions. I think what we need is an aggregator that is committed to professional work rather than “This-is-mine-I-do-what-I-want” attitude.
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i really like to comment on Tala’s comment about the party leader… first point is that not all gays look feminine.. second point: she said that she wants a leader who match the “arab culture”… well plz define what arab culture is.. and if she is considering homosexuality as not-arab, what about the communists, socialists, liberals ? these all are non-arab systems and views..
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devil’s mind, you are always there to correct me! :P. You are right somehow, but I don’t feel it is fair for somene to get everyone in then leave 2-3 because he disagrees with them. Maybe it isnt a right issue, but it is bad.Nidal, you have a good point. Hope she reads it and answer you.
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Well, I don’t want to see a confusion between our rights and we like to see. When we exaggerate our rights, this would probably backfire. If we start claiming rights that are not ours, a corrupt system forms… And a corrupt system eventually breaks.For example, if we solve negative discrimination by positive discrimination, then we have not fixed the discrimination.Similarly, it may not be fair to kick people out of an aggregator. But it won’t be fair to dictate a site\aggregator owner what to include. That would be fixing unfairness by a larger unfairness.
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