Sometimes it is hard to think for yourself when everyone around you seem to think in the same direction. When we talk about nation matters and all the backup against a certain enemy, things can be even harder.
I know that my opinion would upset many, but I guess when a thing has to be said, then it has to be said. I at least can benefit from the space of freedom of speech we have in Jordan.
My question is: Would it be that bad if there wasn’t any Iraqi military resistant after the American occupation?
Why don’t we stop for a moment and think how things would have been in the past couple of years in Iraq without any resistance?
The major argument military resistance advocate base their stand is their claim that the US has invaded Iraq in order to control Oil revenues and dominate the region.
How bad would it be is they actuallu took advantage of some of the Iraqi oil revenue and let the Iraqi’s benefit of the rest as well? Wouldn’t it be better than the current situation we have in Iraq where no one is benefited?
One has to understand the nature of the US in order to build a judjment. If we are going to talk about interests, one has to pay close attention to the big companies busnisses in the US. While the strong lobby of Military companies business have succeeded in pushing towards the war, I guess that other big American international companies were waiting to grab the chance and benefit from entering the Iraqi market.
Would it be bad if we have let them?
Sure they would have gained much profit, but the Iraqi people would have gained much as well.
How bad would it be to have American infrastructure to re-build the country? How bad would it be to have American construction companies, IT companies, Telecommunication, Banks, Technology, Insurance, Autmobiles, …etc
Would it be worse than what is happening in Jordan for instance? We don’t have any American occupation, and still we have the invasion of their inltinational companies.
If we adhered to a peaceful means of resistance, the Iraqi people would be having now far better lives than what they are having now on the ground.
Have you ever lived in Iraq, what you are saying is what 80% Iraqi.
I totally agreed on what you said, the problem we had in Iraq is we are surrounded by Countries that dont want Iraq to be a stable country specially Syria / Iran and Sudia Arabia and Turkiay and most of the rest Arab countries “because of democratic nature of the change”.
The question that most of people forogt, where do those junk of people who call themselves resistence “which is the opposite they are killing people every days in hundards” got money support its all from outside.
I really feel good when someone like you understand Iraqies and how they think specailly you live outside Iraq and blocked by all TV channels that just wrap the bad stuff and show it as good behaviors.
If thing of it twise you will see that it all related to the Extreem reliongs effects that our countries live in.
its not true US was sincere about democracy in iraq. look at how they starve the Palestinian because the elected a government the US and Jews don’t like. same would have happened in iraq if a regime hostile to US won.
if US had its way, iraq would have been divided into kurdish and arab states. millions of sunni arabs would have been marginalized and ethnically cleansed, Syria and Iran would have been targeted and destabilized next, neo-cons would have ruled world politics and this would have given rise to endless US military interventions and arab blood would have flowed like it did during the crusades, UN would have been undermined or terminally discredited, and the good times would have rolled. so count your blessings the Iraqis are a tough nut to crack.
anonymous1, I am glad you feel good about my opinion. It is sad what is happening to the Iraqi people. Hope things would be better soon.
anonymous2, if I was heading a country where my people are starving to death because of me, then I would rather give up my authority and let someone else who can help take my place.
Dont you think that if the US want to divide Iraq, it would have done that by force by now?
If the US had its way dont you think it would be better in Iraq than what we are having now? I don’t think it can be any worse.
emm , first of all i can’t imagin how bad it is in iraq now and i know that i don’t have the right to talk about iraq and iraqis . however this isn’t just about iraq , this is affect the whole reagion , and observer , don’t you think for one sec that if iraqis stoped fighting back it will be better , it will just be worse , and in 10 years we’ll have a 53rd american state right here in the middle east , don’t you think this is bad ???
@ 1st “anonymous” : well , yes you are right about one thing , alot of the so called resistence groups in iraq are killing each other instead of fighting the real enemy
Your started by saying that the resistance is ONLY taking action because the occupation is aiming oil … that is totally wrong … the resistance … my friend … is a natural result of occupation (that’s when we talk about self-respecting nations) … I don’t mind if they are aiming oil or anything else … the problem is in the occupation itself …
Regarding the beautiful and rosy way of describing multi-national companies’ effect I would say … do we live in the same planet??? Haven’t you heard about Venezuela or Bolivia before the leftists taking over??? … You can take a good look … and see the poverty in such rich nations…
And do you know that poverty in Jordan is more than 45% according to international organizations ??
Free speech in JORDAN??? Where did that come from … please refer to the “human rights watch” reports about Jordan … I mean …. Come on …
average-moh, well, if the Iraqi’s would be having better living conditions then I dont care whether it would be the 53th state for the US or not.
Fresto, first of all I didnt say that the only reason for resistance is to stop the US from achieving its goal of taking over Oil. What I said is people backing the resistance are using this argument to counter what the US leaders were saying for their aim of this war.
Second, there are several kinds of occupation Fresto. The US is not taking over Iraq in terms of what the Jews did in Palestine. It is a total different situation. They just wanted to get rid of the past regime which everybody know how bad it was, and has set a plan to leave when the country becomes stable.
Who rules Iraq now are Iraqi’s. The US army is there to help keeping down the tension in a messy situation.
Just look at Japana and Germany, they still have American military forces on their grounds since the world war 2. They didnt adhere to street military resistance, in the contrary, they concentrated on building their country with the space they have and they succeeded to make it to the top. I dont think you would consider them as disrespectful nations.
Would you please provide a link about your 45% claim of poverty in Jordan. I believe it is much much less than that.
Well, we do have a good level of freedom in Jordan regarless of some special cases that happens here and there.
Well , they won’t “be having better living conditions” , they will just be slaves and prisoners in their own country , and observer you have to think about this and how will it affect the whole region in 10 years , it’s not about Iraq nor weapons of mass destruction nor saddam , it’s about keeping us under control , so now it’s Iraq , later it will be Syria’s turn and then Iran’s , and then maybe Jordan , and I agree with fresto on what he said .
So you think that Iraq is ruled by Iraqis now, well my friend you are so wrong , Iraq is ruled by American puppets now , and yes Americans will leave Iraq because they are loosing a lot of troops and money in there , but before they leave they’ll make sure to cut down Iraq into 3 countries , suneh/she3a/2krad , and there will probably be a civil war .
And finally , I don’t know who said something about freedom of speech in here , I can tell you that compared to surrounding country we have freedom of speech , you can say whatever you want .
About Poverty in jordan:
Another thing ….you said yourself the difference between you and people backing up the resistance …. you said you don’t care if iraq is the 53 state or not …. well ….. WE CARE …. we don’t want to be part of the American EMPIRE …. and we won’t accept that
and its very crucial for us to be indepenent …. there is no compromise about that …. thats the main point …
and about freedom of speech …. yes … you can compare jordan to syria … and we will be great … but compare it to lebanon??!! … my point is: to really measure your situation … compare it with ideal situations … if you compare with worse situations you are just justifying the opression of the jordaian govermnment …..
@ fresto :
the freedom of speech here in jordan is better than most of the arabic countries , including lebenon , i bit you don’t live here , do you ??
First …. I am JORDANIAN …. And I lived in Jordan most of my life …. And yes … now I live out side of Jordan …to study …
back to the freedom of speech …. I must tell you … I have a friend from Norway who happened to tell me that freedom of speech in Lebanon is even better than it is in Norway …… besides … I know Lebanon very well … I’ve been there … and I have seen it all … moreover … I can tell you about freedom of speech in Jordan since I was always a political activist … during university … and after that … and I can tell you about arrests …. Getting beaten up in the streets … etc
one more thing … I’ve been real close to people working in journalism … so …. I really don’t want to go there … unless you do …
Fresto, thanks for providing us with the links. I went through them. I couldnt find your 45% ratio of poverty anywhere. The highest I found is 25% ratio in the 2 slide of the power point about the poverty ratio for the family in Jordan in 1997. In another slide they say that according to the world bank study in 1999, the poverty ratio is around 11% in cities and 16% in suberban areas
As for freedom of speech, yes, I agree with you, it is relative. Maybe lebanese are in better situation, but we have a decent level of freedom of speech. That is what I said. I didn’t say that we are in the same level of Norway for example, but still we are doing good, and I feel things are better than 10 years ago.
The power point statistics is showing (extreme) poverty … the difference here is the poverty line … in the research of the power point the poverty line for a family is 87 JDs, while the international poverty line is around 400 – 450 JD (550 USD) … so … you can make the calculations …
Another example …I have a paper listing salaries statistics registered in the Jordanian Social security, salaries under 400 JD is 88.1%, you can check that out yourself…
Poverty rates is not a number you can bring out easily … it requires a lot of research … and a transparent research … u know … and to be honest … maybe I am a little bit pessimistic and the (45%) is kind of exaggerated … but I strongly believe – at the same time – I am not very far from the truth … considering that 75% of the national income is dedicated to pay the national dept