I agree with bakkouz, do whatever you want with your hair, but showing underwear or private body parts in public is indecent and hinders other people’s freedom in a culture as conservative as ours.
indecent exposure ? so are baggy pants now is like giving fellatio in the street ? so its ok if am showing my shorts off under my pants ? how low is it for it to be indecent ? or how short is my shorts for it to be considered indecent. hinder other people’s freedoms ? in what way ? they consider it offensive ? more offensive than seeing a skanky dressed girl ? i’ven’t heard anyone complaining about that ? and its their freedom not to look at it!the fact that you guys are defending such silly and ridiculous rule is hilarious to me, and the fact that you think a bantaloon 2imsa7wel is worthy of being arrested for is even more vile… either way keep of being hoodwinked with bubble issues
No angel, You already know I don’t have any religious motivation myself, but I do respect that we live in a country where there are people trying to raise their kids religiously.I didn’t see low pants in themselves are indecent, but underwear and private body parts, as Fadi clearly expressed in the drawing. An ass crack is showing !Yes, i think exposing private body parts should be arrestable.Grouping that with unrelated items like spiky hair is like grouping picking someone’s wallet with borrowing JD1 from a friend. It’s just not the same thing.
When I heard about the new law regarding clothing, it seemed extremely stupid… Well, it is!Then again, Jordan is a lost cause country… We’ll just have to wait and take the first opportunity to get out of this country!
i didn’t even imply any religious motivation on ur part, all i was saying is that I don’t like to see my plumbers ass crack showing and honestly would prefer that he wears a boxer so i would see that, and thats what people are complaining about. The idea, and as everyone clearly shows by their comments, is that they don’t want to see other peoples underwear… hmm well fact of the matter is that unless it is overtly exposed and literally the pant is hanging on someones ankles its non of ur business to complain about seeing it since you don’t have to, and its not indecent exposure my any measure… its just silly that such an issue is discussed in our parliament, and they even have to give out statements about it and people are disappointed that its not going to be implemented. well i seriously hope they would spend that energy into something worthwhile instead… philistines.
No_Angel: who said anything about fellatio or anything of that sort? indecent exposure isn’t just defined by exposing the most private body parts, it is defined based on the rules of society and it differers from one country to another. the definition of indecent exposure doesn’t follow the same rules in Saudi Arabia as the rules applied in the U.S for example.And yes, I myself and as I’m sure the majority of the Jordanian society would agree with me that showing off a guy’s butt crack falls under indecent exposure 🙂its not a religious thing, its a cultural thing, and even disregarding culture and religion, and assuming we take those factors out of the equation, I myself would not want nor would i want any of my female relatives be exposed to such a sigt, simple because i find it revolting and improper. 🙂
<>indecent exposure doesn’t follow the same rules in Saudi Arabia as the rules applied in the U.S for example.<>I am talking in regards to our rules, indecent exposure in our book of law (not that of society but i’ll concede that its stemming from it) only dictates the showing of private parts in public, and excessive flesh exposure. sounds reasonable to me. and last i checked people where not mooning everyone while walking… so butt cracks or even butts are irrelevant since that observation is removed from reality. we are talking about baggy pants that expose underwear, from what i’ve seen its nonwhite boxers. haven’t seen a g-string strutted by a man yet! <>simple because i find it revolting and improper.<> so its for the protection of females from a bunch of kiddy asses covered by underwear (since its mainly a bunch of kids that we are talking about). Since you two, three or however many u are since you are in the majority… what is the line that you deem indecent ? seeing someone wearing a baggy pant with his colorful boxer exposed slightly (lets say 5 cm worth of underwear) as being indecent ? I suggest starting a “donate a plumber some pants” campaign to protect your eyes from those butt cracks … since they are the only butt cracks i ever recall seeing and not that of a bunch of kids wearing baggy pants 😛on the other hand if thats the way to capture the imagination of the jordanian populous am all for hajjaj’s suggestion to adopt that look
People are taking it a bit far though.. We all are free to wear whatever we please but who want to see body parts flashing all over or underpants in both men and women..it isn’t offensive,but tasteless ..Here, a certain age group of men are fond of showing their boxers..but they pull their pants so much down it feels it’s about to slid so they keep holding it by putting their hand on the front, then it becomes really uncomfortable..Imagine being in an elevator with somebody like this ..
I second no_angel suggestion of adopting that look! heheheIt seems that it is all a rumor thank god, check out ahmed humed blog. because it would be ridiculous having such rule! Bakkouz, you are concern about your female relatives? so what about male relatives? would it be okay then? So now we should start protecting our women from horrible scenary?! because it might devastate their tenderness??!?!And what about women showing the crack of their boobs (do they call it crack?)? will be there a law against it too? or is it okay, because men find it beautiful? The issue here is personal freedom. What is more offending seeing something you dont like or restricting your freedom?
Look I’m all about personal freedom, However, I am also stating two things:1- *I* Personally, would not prefer to see any sight that *I* personally do not like. Just as somebody has the right to do something *I* also have the right to be be forced to endure it.2- As long as a person abides by the law he can do whatever he wishes, I am not familiar with what the Jordanian law has to say about this matter, but *IF* (and this is a very big If) they deem this whole exposing your underwear look “Illegal” or “inappropriate” then that’s the law and they have the right to arrest you for it, depending on what the authorities see fit in regards to the law. I’d like to think the here in Jordan we are reasonable people, I very much highly doubt that they will arrest anybody for wearing baggy pants or having spiky hair, I’m sure they won’t. But, if they someone walking around with his butt exposed or a girl with her boobs hanging out, then that’s a different matter.
to think that a nation is discussing this, wow. what is everyone afraid of? why so much anger and so much opinion? why do you feel the need to have an opinion about where and what a pair of trousers hide/coer/reveal etc. to think a nation is discussing this.
noura asks: but who want to see body parts flashing all over or underpants in both men and women..ME!And I agree with Diala… As I said previously, things have reached in Jordan to extreme lows, that it becomes ridiculous to discuss our governments’ shiny new plans!I think its the Governments’ way of telling us: Leave we don’t want you here, people with brains larger than a cell are not welcome here!
Every one is free to wear what they want but as every1 pointed out we are better off the sight of ur private areas and the kind of underwear u r wearing ! serioulsy , all the past semester in chemistry class at 8:00 am every single morning I had to look at some guy’s boxer ! he had one that was blue with a big red heart all over his butt and his butt is big …really really big !
I was thinking of a compromise, picture walking into a restaurant, and the maître d’ asking:“Would you like to be seated in the butt-crack or none-butt-crack section today ?”
Hani, you seem to forget that public places, and private places are different. A restaurant is private property, the (public) universities and the streets are public. People should be equal in the eyes of the law, and public places.Well, I hate seeing women wearing Hijab, maybe there should be a law to arrest them, don’t you think “lost within”!! My point is: You cannot expect people to follow your standards, and neglect other people’s standards!If you hate seeing a guy’s crack, maybe you shouldn’t be going to the university in the first place. Or maybe you should have your own university, where you can tell who and not who can attend classes…
أذا كشفت عن كلسونك هذا يعتبر تطاول علي المضاق العام ويعتبر خرق قوانين،ولكن في المقابل،أذا سرقت ملاين من أموال الشعب فلكل راح يقدم لك الاحترام وممكن الحكومه تسهلك أقامه وعطله حلوه في العقبه في احلا شاليه،مثل ماصار مع البطيخي Wak up people and don’t be fucking retards
Devil’s mind, in some countries like France they grant your wish and ban Hijab in some schools. The majority of French people don’t care.The law does not hold everyone equal when it comes to decency. As Bakkouz pointed out, decency is determined by the majority of the population, and the majority of the population accepts Hijab, and hates seeing butt-cracks as you put it 🙂Mashkalji, discussing a minor issue does not mean we are unable to consider major ones as well. This idea of a conspiracy theory to distract people is funny since Our minds are multi-tasking.
Hani, what about the rights of minotrities? There are certain rights that you can’t enforce other people to follow. For instance we have a muslim majority in Jordan, should we ban women from going out unveiled? We should make it clear here that sight offence is NOT a crime! Offending the freedom of your right to choose what to wear IS a crime. No matter what majority/minority think!
Fadi, no of course not, it would turn into KSA if we did that. It’s a compromise for both sides, but I see public nudity (indecent exposure) is an extreme case and a crime in most cultures.In any case the whole discussion is theoretical since this isn’t a democracy, and the majority doesn’t really decide anything anyway 🙂
Well, I think France’s ban on Hijab abuses human rights, and its wrong for the government to make such rulings, don’t you think?!If you agree, why the double standard?!
I read a little about France’s position, and it seems that France bans all forms of religious expressions in public schools. So a Christian may not wear a cross, a Jew may not wear the star of David, and Muslims women are not allowed to wear Hijab.In short, they believe (and I don’t agree to their views) that it should not be possible to tell the religion of a person just by looking at him\her. They apply this to schools, because they believe that education system should be clear of all religious symbolism.In the US [which I think have a better system], such symbolisms are protected by the Freedom of Expression.
Devil’s mind, About France, I don’t think they should ban religious symbols, but I also think it should be upto private schools (and businesses) to define their own dress-code if they want to do so.The difference is the average French person doesn’t care much about Hijabis either way, whereas the average Jordanian would have a lot to say about someone walking around with their butt hanging out!
Hani, how do you know about the average french man? I say even if all french people are against hijab, it wouldnt be fair to deny muslims living there from wearing it. People are entitled to their freedom of choosing their dress. Democracy doesnt mean denying the rights of minorities. There should be nothing called sight crimes. It is easier for you to look the other side than to pick your clothes to suit everyone of the population, isnt it?
Fadi, I don’t need to do a survey to tell what the average French person thinks. the Hijab laws when they were implemented were very well publicized and objected to by the Muslim communities locally and worldwide. It is a democracy, so overall it’s the will of the majority that is implemented (unlike here), and the majority of French people are Christians, and I think (my opinion) they don’t sympathize much with Muslims since they couldn’t make an exception even on knowing that the Hijab to a muslim woman is more than just a symbol like wearing a cross or a kippah (yarmulke), but rather a requirement.About eliminating crimes of site, let’s take that to the extreme, what if some Ammanis decide to be nudists in public ! I’ve live in Toronto where it’s legal for women to go topless in the street, and some do. In fact there are entertainment news shows that do live street interviews topless. In any case, we’re not there yet personal freedom wise, and I don’t think we’re ready for anything like that as a culture. Almost all the people I’ve talked to although they didn’t realize that the fines were actually a rumor think they are the right thing to do, but the people I talk to tend to be over 25, so the impression may be biased, but I’d say the people who make the decisions and have the influence/money int he country are also over 25.
Hani, it shouldnt be a crime, even if someone went nude in the street. You can always look the other way. Let’s the limitations be social rather than legal. If society doesnt accept it then only lunatics would follow it. But yet in big cities you can always find sub societies with different cultures and morales. Let everyone choose his dress code. It is a personal freedom.
Hani is correct, democracy can be misused, and by the rule of democracy, majority rules.I have discussed this on my blog numerous times: < HREF="http://zeidspex.blogspot.com/2007/03/political-systems-oversimplified.html" REL="nofollow">here<>, and < HREF="http://zeidspex.blogspot.com/2006/03/majoritarian-democracy-is-bullshit.html" REL="nofollow">here<>.Liberalism is a new idea… Democracy itself is a new idea… As you know, things advance, but slowly… Liberalism is more advanced than democracy… The point is, don’t expect a country like Jordan, which cannot implement democracy correctly to go ahead and implement liberalism! Jordan is still struggling with democracy, and isn’t quite over yet from dictatorship!I am not surprised by Hani’s response… No offense but its a typical Arab behavior… They look at foreign countries and pick up their worst deeds and try to imitate it… Instead of looking for progress, they find excuse in France’s deeds… The deed that they were highly criticized for is now the high moral that we stand behind!!
This reminds me of a group of politicians here in Sweden that want to allow females to swim topless if they want in public swimming pools.they claim that ”the guys aren’t any better than us, why can they swim topless and we can’t”.It’s so funny, to compare it to this topic were the Jordanian government is complaining about people showing the top of their underwears.funny isn’t it, I can understand why the first one wouldn’t be accepted but not the second one
Devil’s mind, I’m not offended by you saying it’s typical Arab behaviour since I am in fact an Arab, but I am disappointed in that you attempt to use that to classify me in a negative manner like this (notice the word they):“They look at foreign countries and pick up their worst deeds and try to imitate it… Instead of looking for progress, they find excuse in France’s deeds.”I don’t know who they is, but it isn’t me. I only mentioned France because you mentioned you disliked Hijab. Here is the quote:“Well, I hate seeing women wearing Hijab, maybe there should be a law to arrest them”and the rest of your comment besides being highly racist is plain inaccurate. I’m not picking the worst of other countries, I am aware of the sensitivities of the majority of the people I live with, and understand I have to respect them.If you want a local example since you are offended by the foreign ones, think of Ramadan, asking to be able to go out in public with your butt crack showing would be like going out in Ramadan and eating in public. It is thumbing your nose at people’s religion.It’s ironic that you mention picking the worst of other cultures when you are so ashamed of your own, you have to rebel by offending most of the people around you.
Well, you have a point that you mentioned France in response to my (satirical) mention of Hijab. Okay, maybe it was not specifically you, and for that I apologize. But the point stands still, that the “majority” of the Jordanian street criticized the French law regarding wearing religious symbols, while that majority (ironically) did the same thing!<>“and the rest of your comment besides being highly racist is plain inaccurate.”<> – I am not sure which part you refer to, but if it was about Jordan not applying democracy, I standstill on my position. Jordanian regime is still not democratic, and to say otherwise is simply being to yourself in the first place… How many Jordanians dare to publicly, freely, and openly criticize the government?! If you say that Jordanian people are free to criticize the government, I would beg to differ!<>“It’s ironic that you mention picking the worst of other cultures when you are so ashamed of your own, you have to rebel by offending most of the people around you.”<> – I am very proud of my culture, and I am very proud of myself… But my culture is not the Arab culture, and just because I was born in an Arab country doesn’t mean that the Arabic culture is my culture!Simply said, I consider myself as a culture on its own… Not Arab, not eastern, and not western… I look at other (established) cultures and use my own judgment independently to refine my personal culture…I don’t mean to offend, but I am uncompromisingly honest. I say whats on my mind without limiting myself to the fear of being rejected. I don’t censor myself or my thoughts just to “fit in” with others… I may say wrong things, and I’d apologize for them [I just did that above], but I will not apologize for saying what I think is true.
Do you like playing in the game which you need to use < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maple mesos<>, when you do not have < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">mesos<>, you must borrow < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">cheap mesos<> from friends, or you buy < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maplestory mesos<>. If you get < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maple story mesos<>, you can continue this game.
Fadi Zaghmout فادي زغموت 
Yes indeed, and the Authorities also have the right to arrest you for indecent exposure 😉
LikeLike
I agree with bakkouz, do whatever you want with your hair, but showing underwear or private body parts in public is indecent and hinders other people’s freedom in a culture as conservative as ours.
LikeLike
indecent exposure ? so are baggy pants now is like giving fellatio in the street ? so its ok if am showing my shorts off under my pants ? how low is it for it to be indecent ? or how short is my shorts for it to be considered indecent. hinder other people’s freedoms ? in what way ? they consider it offensive ? more offensive than seeing a skanky dressed girl ? i’ven’t heard anyone complaining about that ? and its their freedom not to look at it!the fact that you guys are defending such silly and ridiculous rule is hilarious to me, and the fact that you think a bantaloon 2imsa7wel is worthy of being arrested for is even more vile… either way keep of being hoodwinked with bubble issues
LikeLike
No angel, You already know I don’t have any religious motivation myself, but I do respect that we live in a country where there are people trying to raise their kids religiously.I didn’t see low pants in themselves are indecent, but underwear and private body parts, as Fadi clearly expressed in the drawing. An ass crack is showing !Yes, i think exposing private body parts should be arrestable.Grouping that with unrelated items like spiky hair is like grouping picking someone’s wallet with borrowing JD1 from a friend. It’s just not the same thing.
LikeLike
When I heard about the new law regarding clothing, it seemed extremely stupid… Well, it is!Then again, Jordan is a lost cause country… We’ll just have to wait and take the first opportunity to get out of this country!
LikeLike
ya jama3a… i know the observer! he is fucken GAY! I swear to God!!!Can’t you feel it in the air damn it!
LikeLike
i didn’t even imply any religious motivation on ur part, all i was saying is that I don’t like to see my plumbers ass crack showing and honestly would prefer that he wears a boxer so i would see that, and thats what people are complaining about. The idea, and as everyone clearly shows by their comments, is that they don’t want to see other peoples underwear… hmm well fact of the matter is that unless it is overtly exposed and literally the pant is hanging on someones ankles its non of ur business to complain about seeing it since you don’t have to, and its not indecent exposure my any measure… its just silly that such an issue is discussed in our parliament, and they even have to give out statements about it and people are disappointed that its not going to be implemented. well i seriously hope they would spend that energy into something worthwhile instead… philistines.
LikeLike
No_Angel: who said anything about fellatio or anything of that sort? indecent exposure isn’t just defined by exposing the most private body parts, it is defined based on the rules of society and it differers from one country to another. the definition of indecent exposure doesn’t follow the same rules in Saudi Arabia as the rules applied in the U.S for example.And yes, I myself and as I’m sure the majority of the Jordanian society would agree with me that showing off a guy’s butt crack falls under indecent exposure 🙂its not a religious thing, its a cultural thing, and even disregarding culture and religion, and assuming we take those factors out of the equation, I myself would not want nor would i want any of my female relatives be exposed to such a sigt, simple because i find it revolting and improper. 🙂
LikeLike
<>indecent exposure doesn’t follow the same rules in Saudi Arabia as the rules applied in the U.S for example.<>I am talking in regards to our rules, indecent exposure in our book of law (not that of society but i’ll concede that its stemming from it) only dictates the showing of private parts in public, and excessive flesh exposure. sounds reasonable to me. and last i checked people where not mooning everyone while walking… so butt cracks or even butts are irrelevant since that observation is removed from reality. we are talking about baggy pants that expose underwear, from what i’ve seen its nonwhite boxers. haven’t seen a g-string strutted by a man yet! <>simple because i find it revolting and improper.<> so its for the protection of females from a bunch of kiddy asses covered by underwear (since its mainly a bunch of kids that we are talking about). Since you two, three or however many u are since you are in the majority… what is the line that you deem indecent ? seeing someone wearing a baggy pant with his colorful boxer exposed slightly (lets say 5 cm worth of underwear) as being indecent ? I suggest starting a “donate a plumber some pants” campaign to protect your eyes from those butt cracks … since they are the only butt cracks i ever recall seeing and not that of a bunch of kids wearing baggy pants 😛on the other hand if thats the way to capture the imagination of the jordanian populous am all for hajjaj’s suggestion to adopt that look
LikeLike
People are taking it a bit far though.. We all are free to wear whatever we please but who want to see body parts flashing all over or underpants in both men and women..it isn’t offensive,but tasteless ..Here, a certain age group of men are fond of showing their boxers..but they pull their pants so much down it feels it’s about to slid so they keep holding it by putting their hand on the front, then it becomes really uncomfortable..Imagine being in an elevator with somebody like this ..
LikeLike
I second no_angel suggestion of adopting that look! heheheIt seems that it is all a rumor thank god, check out ahmed humed blog. because it would be ridiculous having such rule! Bakkouz, you are concern about your female relatives? so what about male relatives? would it be okay then? So now we should start protecting our women from horrible scenary?! because it might devastate their tenderness??!?!And what about women showing the crack of their boobs (do they call it crack?)? will be there a law against it too? or is it okay, because men find it beautiful? The issue here is personal freedom. What is more offending seeing something you dont like or restricting your freedom?
LikeLike
Look I’m all about personal freedom, However, I am also stating two things:1- *I* Personally, would not prefer to see any sight that *I* personally do not like. Just as somebody has the right to do something *I* also have the right to be be forced to endure it.2- As long as a person abides by the law he can do whatever he wishes, I am not familiar with what the Jordanian law has to say about this matter, but *IF* (and this is a very big If) they deem this whole exposing your underwear look “Illegal” or “inappropriate” then that’s the law and they have the right to arrest you for it, depending on what the authorities see fit in regards to the law. I’d like to think the here in Jordan we are reasonable people, I very much highly doubt that they will arrest anybody for wearing baggy pants or having spiky hair, I’m sure they won’t. But, if they someone walking around with his butt exposed or a girl with her boobs hanging out, then that’s a different matter.
LikeLike
to think that a nation is discussing this, wow. what is everyone afraid of? why so much anger and so much opinion? why do you feel the need to have an opinion about where and what a pair of trousers hide/coer/reveal etc. to think a nation is discussing this.
LikeLike
noura asks: but who want to see body parts flashing all over or underpants in both men and women..ME!And I agree with Diala… As I said previously, things have reached in Jordan to extreme lows, that it becomes ridiculous to discuss our governments’ shiny new plans!I think its the Governments’ way of telling us: Leave we don’t want you here, people with brains larger than a cell are not welcome here!
LikeLike
Every one is free to wear what they want but as every1 pointed out we are better off the sight of ur private areas and the kind of underwear u r wearing ! serioulsy , all the past semester in chemistry class at 8:00 am every single morning I had to look at some guy’s boxer ! he had one that was blue with a big red heart all over his butt and his butt is big …really really big !
LikeLike
I was thinking of a compromise, picture walking into a restaurant, and the maître d’ asking:“Would you like to be seated in the butt-crack or none-butt-crack section today ?”
LikeLike
Hani, you seem to forget that public places, and private places are different. A restaurant is private property, the (public) universities and the streets are public. People should be equal in the eyes of the law, and public places.Well, I hate seeing women wearing Hijab, maybe there should be a law to arrest them, don’t you think “lost within”!! My point is: You cannot expect people to follow your standards, and neglect other people’s standards!If you hate seeing a guy’s crack, maybe you shouldn’t be going to the university in the first place. Or maybe you should have your own university, where you can tell who and not who can attend classes…
LikeLike
أذا كشفت عن كلسونك هذا يعتبر تطاول علي المضاق العام ويعتبر خرق قوانين،ولكن في المقابل،أذا سرقت ملاين من أموال الشعب فلكل راح يقدم لك الاحترام وممكن الحكومه تسهلك أقامه وعطله حلوه في العقبه في احلا شاليه،مثل ماصار مع البطيخي Wak up people and don’t be fucking retards
LikeLike
Devil’s mind, in some countries like France they grant your wish and ban Hijab in some schools. The majority of French people don’t care.The law does not hold everyone equal when it comes to decency. As Bakkouz pointed out, decency is determined by the majority of the population, and the majority of the population accepts Hijab, and hates seeing butt-cracks as you put it 🙂Mashkalji, discussing a minor issue does not mean we are unable to consider major ones as well. This idea of a conspiracy theory to distract people is funny since Our minds are multi-tasking.
LikeLike
Well,well,well,To Hanii,,a well documented case becomes conspiracy theory ? Almashkalgy
LikeLike
Hani, what about the rights of minotrities? There are certain rights that you can’t enforce other people to follow. For instance we have a muslim majority in Jordan, should we ban women from going out unveiled? We should make it clear here that sight offence is NOT a crime! Offending the freedom of your right to choose what to wear IS a crime. No matter what majority/minority think!
LikeLike
Fadi, no of course not, it would turn into KSA if we did that. It’s a compromise for both sides, but I see public nudity (indecent exposure) is an extreme case and a crime in most cultures.In any case the whole discussion is theoretical since this isn’t a democracy, and the majority doesn’t really decide anything anyway 🙂
LikeLike
Well, I think France’s ban on Hijab abuses human rights, and its wrong for the government to make such rulings, don’t you think?!If you agree, why the double standard?!
LikeLike
I read a little about France’s position, and it seems that France bans all forms of religious expressions in public schools. So a Christian may not wear a cross, a Jew may not wear the star of David, and Muslims women are not allowed to wear Hijab.In short, they believe (and I don’t agree to their views) that it should not be possible to tell the religion of a person just by looking at him\her. They apply this to schools, because they believe that education system should be clear of all religious symbolism.In the US [which I think have a better system], such symbolisms are protected by the Freedom of Expression.
LikeLike
Devil’s mind, About France, I don’t think they should ban religious symbols, but I also think it should be upto private schools (and businesses) to define their own dress-code if they want to do so.The difference is the average French person doesn’t care much about Hijabis either way, whereas the average Jordanian would have a lot to say about someone walking around with their butt hanging out!
LikeLike
Hani, how do you know about the average french man? I say even if all french people are against hijab, it wouldnt be fair to deny muslims living there from wearing it. People are entitled to their freedom of choosing their dress. Democracy doesnt mean denying the rights of minorities. There should be nothing called sight crimes. It is easier for you to look the other side than to pick your clothes to suit everyone of the population, isnt it?
LikeLike
Fadi, I don’t need to do a survey to tell what the average French person thinks. the Hijab laws when they were implemented were very well publicized and objected to by the Muslim communities locally and worldwide. It is a democracy, so overall it’s the will of the majority that is implemented (unlike here), and the majority of French people are Christians, and I think (my opinion) they don’t sympathize much with Muslims since they couldn’t make an exception even on knowing that the Hijab to a muslim woman is more than just a symbol like wearing a cross or a kippah (yarmulke), but rather a requirement.About eliminating crimes of site, let’s take that to the extreme, what if some Ammanis decide to be nudists in public ! I’ve live in Toronto where it’s legal for women to go topless in the street, and some do. In fact there are entertainment news shows that do live street interviews topless. In any case, we’re not there yet personal freedom wise, and I don’t think we’re ready for anything like that as a culture. Almost all the people I’ve talked to although they didn’t realize that the fines were actually a rumor think they are the right thing to do, but the people I talk to tend to be over 25, so the impression may be biased, but I’d say the people who make the decisions and have the influence/money int he country are also over 25.
LikeLike
Hani, it shouldnt be a crime, even if someone went nude in the street. You can always look the other way. Let’s the limitations be social rather than legal. If society doesnt accept it then only lunatics would follow it. But yet in big cities you can always find sub societies with different cultures and morales. Let everyone choose his dress code. It is a personal freedom.
LikeLike
Hani is correct, democracy can be misused, and by the rule of democracy, majority rules.I have discussed this on my blog numerous times: < HREF="http://zeidspex.blogspot.com/2007/03/political-systems-oversimplified.html" REL="nofollow">here<>, and < HREF="http://zeidspex.blogspot.com/2006/03/majoritarian-democracy-is-bullshit.html" REL="nofollow">here<>.Liberalism is a new idea… Democracy itself is a new idea… As you know, things advance, but slowly… Liberalism is more advanced than democracy… The point is, don’t expect a country like Jordan, which cannot implement democracy correctly to go ahead and implement liberalism! Jordan is still struggling with democracy, and isn’t quite over yet from dictatorship!I am not surprised by Hani’s response… No offense but its a typical Arab behavior… They look at foreign countries and pick up their worst deeds and try to imitate it… Instead of looking for progress, they find excuse in France’s deeds… The deed that they were highly criticized for is now the high moral that we stand behind!!
LikeLike
This reminds me of a group of politicians here in Sweden that want to allow females to swim topless if they want in public swimming pools.they claim that ”the guys aren’t any better than us, why can they swim topless and we can’t”.It’s so funny, to compare it to this topic were the Jordanian government is complaining about people showing the top of their underwears.funny isn’t it, I can understand why the first one wouldn’t be accepted but not the second one
LikeLike
Devil’s mind, I’m not offended by you saying it’s typical Arab behaviour since I am in fact an Arab, but I am disappointed in that you attempt to use that to classify me in a negative manner like this (notice the word they):“They look at foreign countries and pick up their worst deeds and try to imitate it… Instead of looking for progress, they find excuse in France’s deeds.”I don’t know who they is, but it isn’t me. I only mentioned France because you mentioned you disliked Hijab. Here is the quote:“Well, I hate seeing women wearing Hijab, maybe there should be a law to arrest them”and the rest of your comment besides being highly racist is plain inaccurate. I’m not picking the worst of other countries, I am aware of the sensitivities of the majority of the people I live with, and understand I have to respect them.If you want a local example since you are offended by the foreign ones, think of Ramadan, asking to be able to go out in public with your butt crack showing would be like going out in Ramadan and eating in public. It is thumbing your nose at people’s religion.It’s ironic that you mention picking the worst of other cultures when you are so ashamed of your own, you have to rebel by offending most of the people around you.
LikeLike
Well, you have a point that you mentioned France in response to my (satirical) mention of Hijab. Okay, maybe it was not specifically you, and for that I apologize. But the point stands still, that the “majority” of the Jordanian street criticized the French law regarding wearing religious symbols, while that majority (ironically) did the same thing!<>“and the rest of your comment besides being highly racist is plain inaccurate.”<> – I am not sure which part you refer to, but if it was about Jordan not applying democracy, I standstill on my position. Jordanian regime is still not democratic, and to say otherwise is simply being to yourself in the first place… How many Jordanians dare to publicly, freely, and openly criticize the government?! If you say that Jordanian people are free to criticize the government, I would beg to differ!<>“It’s ironic that you mention picking the worst of other cultures when you are so ashamed of your own, you have to rebel by offending most of the people around you.”<> – I am very proud of my culture, and I am very proud of myself… But my culture is not the Arab culture, and just because I was born in an Arab country doesn’t mean that the Arabic culture is my culture!Simply said, I consider myself as a culture on its own… Not Arab, not eastern, and not western… I look at other (established) cultures and use my own judgment independently to refine my personal culture…I don’t mean to offend, but I am uncompromisingly honest. I say whats on my mind without limiting myself to the fear of being rejected. I don’t censor myself or my thoughts just to “fit in” with others… I may say wrong things, and I’d apologize for them [I just did that above], but I will not apologize for saying what I think is true.
LikeLike
Do you like playing in the game which you need to use < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maple mesos<>, when you do not have < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">mesos<>, you must borrow < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">cheap mesos<> from friends, or you buy < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maplestory mesos<>. If you get < HREF="http://www.mmodo.com/product/MapleStory_-_Singapore_Mesos.html" REL="nofollow">maple story mesos<>, you can continue this game.
LikeLike